Deputy Secretary of State Randall Tobias resigned on April 27, 2007 after it was revealed that Deborah Jeane Palfrey, the “D.C. Madam,” had Tobias’s cell number in her big black book. ABC News has all of Palfrey’s phone records — she just gave the records to the network — and they questioned Tobias about his phone number being in the files…
Palfrey’s office, home, and her bank accounts were all raided and/or seized by the IRS in October, 2006. She’s being charged with racketeering and money laundering.
Those are not the usual major, violent crimes that typically make it into my blogging, but they are an alleged series of criminal acts. And yeah, we’re talking politics, too, because you can’t avoid politics if the accused is nicknamed the “D.C. Madam.”
The story of the D.C. Madam becomes more interesting by the day.
Deborah Jeane Palfrey ran Pamela Martin & Associates for about 13 years — from 1993 until the IRS charged her with racketeering and busted up her operation in October, 2006. [link: The Smoking Gun].
To get a look at several variations of the website she built, go here: Wayback Machine — PamelaMartin.com; older version of site that was at a different URL until 2000.
Bullet points found on the main page seemed pretty straightforward:
- Pamela Martin and Associates is a professional escort/out-call service operating in the D.C. metropolitan area, with service to all surrounding suburbs and limited service to the 410 area code. Established in 1993, PM enjoys a reputation of being, undoubtedly, the best adult agency around, with an approximate, on-going repeat clientele rate of 65-75%.
- The staff is comprised of those individuals ages 23 and up, with two or more years of college education, who either work and/or go to school in the daytime.
- Rates are a flat $275 for a 90 minute appointment. No additional charges beyond this amount are expected or required.
- Open 7 days a week beginning at 5pm daily.
- Best selection and availability before 9pm each evening.
- Cash or traveler’s checks only.
Never states flat-out what the deal is, but you’d have to be awfully thick to think that PM was anything but a high-class call-girl outfit. The Smoking Gun has had pages online since last December underscoring just how frank Ms. Palfrey and her stable of girls were with each other about their business.
Former Deputy Secretary of State Tobias did tell ABC News the following:
On Thursday, Tobias told ABC News he had several times called the “Pamela Martin and Associates” escort service “to have gals come over to the condo to give me a massage.”
Tobias, who is married, said there had been “no sex,” and that recently he had been using another service “with Central Americans” to provide massages…
The next day, Tobias resigned. Maybe he realized how much his whole “massage” deal reeked of Ted Haggard, the disgraced evangelical preacher who fell from having President Bush’s ear to admitting he supplemented his own male-on-male massages with meth. (To be fair, Bill Clinton’s equivocations about subjects like whether or not he “inhaled” marijuana and whether oral sex constituted “sex” or not were equally ridiculous. I liked Clinton, but I won’t ignore his own inimitable contributions to Stupid Moments in Presidential History)
Today, Deborah Jeane Palfrey addressed Mr. Tobias’s resignation, among other things. From “Politics” at Bloomberg.com:
“Let me say how genuinely sorry I am for Mr. Tobias, his family and his friends,” Palfrey said at a press conference after appearing in federal court. “I, unfortunately, know the impact such charges can have.”Palfrey is making good on her threat to expose what she claims is a high-powered Washington clientele to show that her escorts stayed within the law. Montgomery Blair Sibley, Palfrey’s attorney in a civil case seeking the return of assets seized by authorities, said Palfrey gave four years of phone records to ABC News.
“I do expect their reporting to help identify potential witnesses for my defense,” Palfrey said…
Jeane Palfrey’s lawyer was quoted later in the article. I’ve added some emphasis:
“This was adult sexual fantasy which stayed within legality, much like going to a strip club,” Sibley said in a telephone interview. “You can pay an escort to come to your home, get naked and get a massage and you haven’t broken any laws, assuming you stay on your stomach.”Tobias, 65, the former chairman and chief executive officer of Eli Lilly & Co., told ABC News he called the service and “had some gals come over to the condo to give me a massage,” though he denied any sex was involved. He is married.
Tobias’s statement “supports my position all along that I operated a sexual, albeit legal, business,” Palfrey said…
Now is as good a time as any to introduce you to “Capt. Fred.”
“Capt. Fred” is a screen name. I don’t have any idea as to who he might be in real life.
On November 25, 2003, Capt. Fred posted a message on a forum at USASexGuide.Info.
Here is how that website describes itself:
The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women.
It’s just as simple as that.
Capt. Fred was participating in a discussion about escorts in the D.C. area. What you are about to read is unsavory and unsettling, but not quite obscene. If you are a woman or anyone who gives a damn about womens’ issues, the following may make you furious, as the tendency of some males to completely objectify women is on full display.
I’ve decided to quote the whole comment, which was made at 3:28 p.m. that November day 3 years ago. Bold emphasis has been added to some statements. Incidentally, many articles about the D.C. Madam have stated that “Miss Julia” you read about below was a pseudonym for Deborah Jeane Palfrey. Capt. Fred wrote:
IMHO, I think by far, the best service for the money in DC area (Washington, Annapolis, Baltimore, and surrounding areas) is Pamela Martin Escort Agency (www.pamelamartin.com). Sorry, no pictures on their web site. Description of the Ladies is given right over the phone (very accurate description I may add). The cost is $275 for 90 minutes (1 hour & half!)Pamela Martin is an outcall agency (outcall only - nice hotels or homes). Ms. Julia runs the business, and handles calls after 5 PM every day. Pamela Martin has been in business for 10 years!
Ms. Julia is very respectful, so treat her nicely. Please don’t ask her about what type of services or languages the Ladies speak. She will hang up on you!
ALL of Ladies are office professionals, and work 9 to 5 jobs. This is just extra money for them. Most of the Ladies that I have met have MS or PHD! I try Pamela Martin at least once a month.
You can ask for the type of service when you meet the Lady. Oh yes, you can always refuse her right at the door if you don’t like her. Just call Ms. Julia and complain. No Cost to you!
About the services, almost everything is included. I say almost, because some of them don’t offer Greek. Everything else depending on the Lady is included (BBBJ & TC, CBJ & TC, FS covered, spanking, DATY, touching, DFK). Some offer very nice massage, at no cost!
Please don’t ask Ms. Julia if she has anyone who speaks Greek. Some of them do, and you just have to ask them when they are with you! Funny thing, if you use the terminology “Greek”, most of them don’t know what you are talking about. Just say: “Anal sex”. I am sorry the one I used to see which offered Greek, is no longer there. And, some of the Ladies are there only for a short time (few months!).
The only bad thing about Pamela Martin, most Ladies charge $50 more for more than 1 pop! I say most, because if you see some for a while, they won’t charge you!
The best thing about Pamela Martin is no rush, relaxed, and 90 minutes long! And, educated! You can actually carry on a conversation with them!
If you want more information or tips, please send me a private message on WSG.
Fred
Squirming uncomfortably, yet? Fred’s “WSG” was most likely WorldSexGuide.info, a sister (or drunken, horny frat brother) site to the one where this post was made. There are several variations on the “SexGuide.info” theme out there. I took note of Fred referencing being on that site as well because it simply suggested that the guy got his freak on all over the world. As long as his partners were consenting adults, no big deal, I guess. I just hope he wasn’t bringing all manner of nastiness back home to a loyal and loving wife. Pretty sure plenty of his fellow posters were.
Another poster in a different message thread chimed in about Pamela Martin & Associates in March, 2004. “Chipmonk” wrote the following:
I can confirm that the Pamela Martin agency is an excellent agency, a good value at at $275 for 90 minutes. I was looking for a change of pace from the local AMPS and based on another posters recommendation called Pamela Martin. These are nice ladies treat them as such and you will be rewarded. I used to go to the Royal AMP until one day the LE closed them down for a day in 2002. then I found downtown and CPH and never returned They are open again, but have seen no posts about them lately. It was a very clean place and above average service. I only get to DC a few times a year, I may check it out for “you all ” next trip, now that you may have lost Downtown.
Enjoy DC, you folks have the best selection in the country…
Nice. The “best selection” line makes it sound like the guy was talking about different flavors of microbrewed beer.
I feel really naive admitting that I don’t know what a number of the acronyms in those posts stand for. Anyone who does know is welcome to send me an e-mail or leave a comment.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m a pretty “typical” guy in some respects, and I’ve done my fair share of “locker room talk.” That should tell you something, though — even a guy who was a dawg in the past was offended by the tone of the messages left by these dudes with screen names that bring to mind some sort of demented cartoon series (”Coming up next! Captain Fred and ChipMonk’s CRAZY Sexcapades in Washington!!!!!”).
I don’t think Ms. Palfrey confined herself to just the one business we now know about. And it isn’t that I want to see this woman go to the pen for racketeering — she ain’t no Al Capone. In fact, if a movie ever comes out about her saga, I’ll go watch it, because she’s obviously not a Heidi Fleiss, either, but much more interesting, and likely much more intelligent. No, the deal here is that I’m just really curious as to how big her client list truly may be, and how far her “services” really reached. And I think the “like going to a strip club” line is, to put it politely, “a load.”
I also want to know how many more handjob massage-lovers there are up there in those “echelons of power,” guys like Randall Tobias. If you haven’t read this entire entry on ABC’s The Blotter yet, you should, just to read Tobias’s “ABCs.” If you have a refined sense of loathing for a certain form of hypocrisy like me, Mr. Tobias’s take on Third World birth control, given when he was still happily ensconced in his job, will make you grind your teeth.
If Ms. Palfrey had other, similar businesses, I imagine she targeted similar clientele. This archived page from her old site had a “Manhattan/NYC Escort Service” link at the bottom of the page. It was dead, and attempts to find a saved version of the page were fruitless. Still, it looked like Ms. Palfrey didn’t always confine her business endeavors to Washington, DC.
Jeane Palfrey did, in fact, have at least one perfectly respectable-looking business:
- http://www.jeanepalfreyeclectica.com/ [link goes to Wayback Machine files];
- http://www.jeanepalfrey.com/ [again, link takes you to captures made by Archive.org].
Both sites were actually for the business entity, Jeane Palfrey Eclectica. The company’s mission: “‘Our Promise/Our Mission’: To sell unique, quality crafted, timeless and affordable home accessory items.”
Other evidence of this legit company seems a little hard to find, though. Could it have been some sort of facade, a trick Palfrey used to hide money transactions?
Or was she tired of making money off the prurient needs of the power elites in Washington, and ready to settle down a little? (Incidentally, the domain registration info for the “Eclectica” sites is identical to the info for a site that has been linked to Palfrey by the mainstream press: CharleroiPAHSAlumni.org.) It does look like she made an effort to promote the ‘home accessory’ business.
The fascinating thing about all of this, of course, is our imagining that people who formerly held positions of respect might be brought low by virtue of a phone number in a computer file or a day planner. It’s part cynicism, part schadenfreude. Browsing through the blogosphere and the mainstream media, it is hard to find anyone who seems to say Ms. Palfrey should be hauled off to Federal prison, post-haste. I don’t see her as some Machiavellian villain, myself. She should get her due process like everyone else, and if she is then found guilty of the financial crimes alleged, well, off she goes. She found a way to make a living, and in her mind, it was probably justified because of the pleasure it provided the customers.
It could even be that the “Eclectica” business really was her way to segue into something more palatable, straightforward.
But you know, Judge Judy, whom I normally detest, comes to mind when I think about Palfrey or anyone else trying to claim her services were akin to what you’d get at an adult club. I believe it was the obnoxious TV jurist who said something like “don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”
That’s how I feel about the claim that Pamela Martin & Associates was not a prostitution ring. Oh, please. Capt. Fred and ChipMonk were posting on that board before Ms. Palfrey’s business came to public attention in a big way, and at the time, they seemed to have little expectation that anyone other than fellow whoremongers from around the world would be reading.
Maybe there is some sort of real injustice going on, as Ms. Palfrey claims, and maybe she’ll be exonerated and write a big fat book about the whole thing.
I think if Ms. Palfrey really wants to garner some public support for her cause (and titling a site like http://deborahjeanepalfrey.com/ “Deborah Jeane Palfrey Legal Defense Fund” certainly implies Ms. Palfrey is seeking such support), she should drop the b.s. about the business NOT being prostitution. She seems to be saying, and her lawyer is saying, that the business was legal. Maybe in Nevada. Of course, to cop to that may completely destroy the rest of her defense, I don’t know. If it doesn’t, she should think about it. I mean, she’s up against the IRS, for one thing, and who likes them? I don’t. But I also dislike people who believe the rest of the world is too stupid to catch them out in a line of bull.
The publicizing of that list of customers, if it is as remarkable as the press seems to think it could be — well, it would probably go a long way towards mitigating the current impression some surely have that Deborah Jeane Palfrey is not just a “Madam,” but a con woman, in general. That, or make us forget all about her — and maybe she’d prefer that.
Updates, if needed, will be posted below.
UPDATE 1
This isn’t actually an update. It’s just a note to clarify some things that are not readily apparent in what I wrote above:
– I actually think prostitution should be legalized so those who go into it everywhere can have some of the benefits sex trade workers in Nevada have, like health care plans, benefits, etc.
– That said, I’ve never understood men who seem to have a need for it, and I guess I never will. Not a moral judgment on my part, either — at least not consciously. So I get a little creeped-out reading those message board exchanges, yes. But only a little. God knows I’ve read worse.
– I don’t buy this bullsh*t idea afoot in the blogosphere that I must publish your comment, even if it is offensive or gratuitously insulting to me or to another person posting here. If you took two seconds to look around this site at all — and that sort of diligence is alien to many blog surfers, it seems — you would see that I do publish critical, negative comments. You’d also see that I’ve addressed this before. But histrionic screeds written by trolls get bounced. If you insulted me or a guest in my own home, I’d throw you out. Same difference, as far as I’m concerned.
– This is for the Comcast/New Jersey-based troll with IP address 68.36.5.51 (or “TROLL2,” as I’ve labeled your footprints in my tracker) — I’m not a neocon, and I’m not a liberal, either. It’s kind of funny that anyone would try and pigeonhole me that way. It just shows that you’ve read one blog entry and made a snap judgment based either on your own prejudices or level of angry drunkenness. You, however, are a troll. At this point, I’m booting your comments just because your repeated attempts to leave them show me that it’s annoying to you. I’ve had other irritated comments and e-mails tonight, but the ones who should get booted are always obvious, like you. And while there are a ton of people visiting this blog at the moment, you are actually the only one I’m consistently modding, based on the IP.
– The message board quotes in this blog entry were chosen mostly because they suggest that the “adult business” in question was exactly what it looked like. Seems like the owner (Ms. Palfrey) has been saying that wasn’t true, and I just don’t believe it.
– All I did was call b.s. on part of Jeane Palfrey’s story. I am more interested in who used her service and may now be fretting about what she may have had on them, information-wise. I’m interested because we already know one of them was a neocon, Randall Tobias. The original draft of this blog entry had more passages about me getting a kick out of that, which would have pleased the troll who called me a neocon, perhaps, but c’est la vie. Yes, I am curious about who is on Ms. Palfrey’s list, because I suspect that it covers the gamut, party-wise, but might just be heavily weighted on the christofascist end of the spectrum.
– The truth is this — I’m pretty middle-of-the-road politically, and I distrust politicians in general, on both sides of the aisle. I find both ends of the political spectrum to be equal in smugness, just over different issues. The comments I receive on politically-charged blog entries always prove this to me. While I do think Jeane Palfrey probably had more than her fair share of repressed right-wingers calling up for “companionship,” I’ve also noticed that whenever I get really ugly blog entries written by others aimed my way or comments posted here, they seem to come from people who reveal through their words a decidedly left-leaning view of the world. I have to wonder if other moderates feel as I do — that the people on the more extreme ends of the political spectrum are equally scary, just in different ways.
Thanks to everyone who clarified the acronyms. Some of them were pretty obvious, but others, not so much.
UPDATE 2
Think Progress has an entry up about Randall L. Tobias that is too good to miss. Quoting:
Former U.S. AID director Randall Tobias, who resigned yesterday upon admitting that he frequented a Washington escort service, oversaw a controversial policy advocated by the religious right that required any US-based group receiving anti-AIDS funds to take an anti-prostitution “loyalty oath.”
The entry quoted above only gets better. No mentions of “Greek” vs. “Anal sex,” though.
UPDATE 3
The world wouldn’t explode tomorrow if prostitution were legalized. For me, it’s like legalizing marijuana — there are some pretty good arguments out there for doing so. Every time I hear of some pothead getting put away for a few years I contrast that in my mind with the last story I read about a pedophile who was given a slap on the wrist by some liberal judge, only to offend again. Put the snack-food happy pothead back on the street and keep the pedophile behind bars, I say. The makers of vanilla wafers, fritos, and Taco Bell will thank you later. As will the owners of Chuck E. Cheese, since that’s one restaurant that would surely benefit both ways — happy stoners eating tons of pizza and not so many creepy lurkers spying on the kids in the game room.
But at the same time, I’m only finding more online discussion about the Pamela Martin & Associates Escort Service that appears to confirm that it was indeed a “FS” (Full Service) kind of outfit. Contrast that with a paragraph like the following, published in an AP story written today:
Palfrey has described her business as a “legal, high-end erotic fantasy service.” Prosecutors say Palfrey knew that her escorts were having sex with clients and that Palfrey generated more than $2 million in revenue over 13 years, with more than 130 women employed at various times to serve thousands of clients at $200 to $300 a session.
There are a few problems with that quote, actually. One problem is the statement that Jeane Palfrey was running a legal service. Yeah, maybe there would be no harm in legalizing it, but in most places, prostitution is still illegal. The other problem is the question as to whether or not prostitution is the biggest issue here. Based on what’s been written about this case so far — TSG still one of the better sources for concise write-ups about the scandal so far, in addition to the documents — I understand that Ms. Palfrey’s problem is more with the IRS than anything else. They seem to be saying that she was making money from an illegal endeavor and therefore she was hiding her income and not paying appropriate taxes.
I guess you can’t address the actual charges against Palfrey without acknowledging that there wouldn’t be a story unless people were asking whether or not her service was legal.
Her business was raided a month before the November elections that saw Democrats regain a share of power in the government. Was she targeted because her files are a little overly-heavy with cell phone numbers owned by Republicans? Does the timing of the raid indicate a growing panic in the then-Republican run government? That’s a pretty damned good question, actually. If the answer is yes, it’s no wonder the woman is fighting so hard.
The messages I’ve quoted so far about Pamela Martin & Associates were openly discussing what could be expected from the service, and at least one of the posts in question was made as far back as 2003 — a year before the feds say they began to investigate the service and Ms. Palfrey.
TheEroticReview.com had discussions between board users about the service going back to at least 2002.
For instance, board user “Richard III” answered another poster’s question about Pamela Martin on November 12, 2003:
I have experienced mostly older ladies (over 30) who will accommodate you fully, but seem rushed toward the end and expect more $ for extras. Some will meet you on their day off, but it will cost you plenty! It is best to deal with them as you would a business deal and not expect more. She seems to hire the older ladies who have nothing else going for them, although they are educated to some extent and can have a halfway decent discussion with you, if that is what you want. They even seem to be good actresses (if you know what I mean).
“Over 30″ is older? Sure, 18 through 29 can be a great time for a woman where attractiveness is concerned, but I was 20 the last time I thought of over 30 as being “older.” Then again, I turn 40 this year, so my perspective has no doubt changed even more than I realize.
Anyway… on November 25, 2004, board user “tomsmith02″ posted this succinct account of services provided by Pamela Martin & Associates:
Pamela Martin is a FS outfit. Hailey was a GFE (YMMV as always). Some are in 20’s, others 30’s. and others 40’s.
I remember some reviews on TER, but they seem to have been pulled.
I added hyperlinks to the quote — follow those to get an idea of what some of those acronyms mean. (Some definitions have also been posted in the comments left on this entry.)
The reviews for Pamela Martin were not always positive. Someone using the screen name “forbin” was pretty succinct in a post made in January of 2005: “Let it me (sic) known…PAMELA MARTIN AGENCY IS A TOTAL RIP OFF!”
“forbin” later apologized, though — poor guy got his prostitutes confused.
A post was made by “Richard III” on February 19, 2004 in response to someone else who wanted “Greek” lessons in Virginia. In case you didn’t follow that link in the word “Greek,” or you haven’t read the original blog entry above — “Greek” is a euphemism for anal sex.
“Richard III’s” advice:
Call Pamela Martin and get Sophia. She prefers Greek after French and other lessons. Looks are okay, but service is superb, check her VIP reviews and compare. She is a porn actress and for the price is a good deal. Supply a review with your opinion.
So, either Pamela Martin escorts were truly talented linguists willing to tutor others in the context of a paid date, or everyone was doing the nasty in all its wondrous variations for money. Ms. Palfrey is telling us that all of this was pure fantasy. I don’t think anyone is buying it. But — if Deborah Jeane Palfrey’s business was raided in October 2006 specifically to allow someone in power to try and control the flow of bad news that was then booting a number of Republicans out of office — well, that would be its own kind of nasty, and worthy of some major investigation by people who just want to know the truth.
Raw Story has now followed this route to exploring the D.C. Madam scandal — check it out. Be sure you read the comments left on the article as well.
(Thanks to LieparDestin at DailyKos for the Raw Story link, and for the quotes and mention in this entry.)
(NOTE: While researching this, I discovered user number 552459 on AOLStalker.com. Couldn’t figure out a way to mention Mr. 552459 in the entry, but I just had to recommend readers go take a look. PamelaMartin.com is only one of a number of searches this person made. I’ll contrast two of them for you: daytona beach brothels, and… wait for it… u.s. flag etiquette. Dee-lightful.)
46 Comments
You were interested in what some of the acronyms mean - here’s some help (and before you jump to conclusions, it’s easily found on the web just by searching using escorts and terminology as your search terms:
BBBJ - Bareback Blowjob
CBJ - Covered Blowjob (with a condom)
TC - To completion
DATY - Dine at the Y (cunnilingus)
FS - Full Service (sex with penetration)
DFK - Deep French Kiss
Had to comment on Clinton’s “didn’t inhale” remark. It actually does make sense if you think about it. As someone pointed out to me, “Well, if you’re not used to smoking, esp. something as harsh as pot can be, you can’t really inhale your first time can you?” I realized he was right; my first attempt at smoking tobacco resulted in my trying to inhale, but as soon as that smoke entered my body I was a coughin’ and a hackin’. You have to learn to do it. Fortunately, it never caught on strongly with me. Though yes, Clinton could’ve avoided everything by simply saying “I tried it once, didn’t like it, didn’t try it again.”
Think that the Capt. Fred post may in fact be simply an add posted by the agency? Poster seems to have extensive knowledge of prices and practices of the agency. If such an agency were legally allowed to write forthright ad copy, isn’t this basicly what they would write?
i had to look up those terms (curiosity got the best of me). i found definitions here:
http://www.sexwork.com/subcontents/abbreviations.html
the only one i didn’t find on there was “tc,” but apparently that means “to completion.”
Prositution is just plain stupid. I’m glad she was caught.
excellent article. well said. thank you. don’t know the acronyms either. the teeth grinding hypocrisy - courtesy of bushco. 630 more days or less, depending on the Gusto of the Congress.
Ms. Palfrey didn’t expect anyone to believe that she wasn’t running a call girl service. She was simply trying to extort her clients to back her in court by threatening them with exposure. I guess she thought that it was worth a try. So much for being discrete. Of course, none of the clients saw how coming forward would benefit them. I hope that their experience was worth it.
I don’t see what’s so shocking about men ‘objectifying’ prostitutes. Why wouldn’t an anonymous consumer review a product or service? I am sure that he mentioned all the salient points.
I think that this call girl service was less exclusive and expensive than either the Heidi Fleiss operation in Beverly Hills or the call girl business that Sydney Biddle Barrows once ran out of the Mayflower on Central Park West (that seedy hotel was demolished a few years ago to make way for condos).
I am amused by the downfall of Randall Tobias. I hope more like him follow suit.
If I remember correctly, prosecution tried to prevent her from publishing her list of clients phone numbers. A lot of those people, if exposed, would testify that it was nothing, but a high-paid companion service.
Personally, I think she hoped that some of her clients would push all buttons available to them in order to stop the trial.
While i must admit $275 is not a bad price for the service. I’d like to know what crime was committed? I mean if i take a woman out to a nice meal, a show at the theater and we both have a wonderful time and decide we’d like to have sex - have I just paid for sex. I mean I COULD BE lying to her. You know pretending to be interested in her career or life, just so that we can have a reason to have the physical contact we both might want. Curious…
From the article and comments above, are we to assume only republicans or Bush cronies were clients? Do democrats get horny?
No to the question about cronies, yes of course to the question about democrats. But I think people enjoy the idea of Bush cronies being clients more because there is a perception — I think a correct perception — that Bush and the Repubs in general are in the hip pocket of the evangelical movement. A story like this underscores their presumed hypocrisy.
I watch both sides of the aisle, and frankly I’m going to be very curious to see the reactions to any big names in Ms. Palfrey’s address book that are from the party that now holds the majority in the legislative branch of our government.
Over 13 years, the distribution of clients across party affiliations was surely pretty broad. Was it even? Guess we’ll see soon.
… Tobias, as the was the United States Global AIDS Coordinator, was promotion abstinence programs as the only solution against AIDS and STDs in developing countries… Now, the question is, did he use condoms for these special massages?
I sometimes wonder just what part he had massaged.
Though I truly would rather not know, when it comes right down to it.
Hello,
Great blog you have here; just so you know, I have had experiences with people like troll2, and it seems popular on the web to put out essentially false screeds against people. A lot of time I see people on the right pretending to be basically a caricature of someone on the left attacking people in a trollish way like “you neocon!” and so forth. Fun stuff.
P.S. I have 10 bucks that says it swings Republican; it has nothing to do with just being horny, it was to do with being repressed and possibly into some freaky stuff the wife won’t do. Like, maybe the old lady doesn’t “speak your language!”
And, as Steve said, when the high, mighty and moral get caught with their pants down, it’s just that much funnier.
who misses jeff gannon?
http://mysite.verizon.net/myk15/bushhugsmanho.html
I don’t really get why this is illegal in the first place.
1) How is this inherently different from meeting someone in a bar and going home for the night? Or, buying someone dinner with the expectation of taking them home?
2) Suppose someone places an ad to come over to your place and sleep with you. I mean literally sleep, nothing more. Just cuddle up in the same bed together. Would that be illegal?
3) If someone is giving massages, why should they be prohibited from massaging anything? Is there any negative effect on the community from someone giving or receiving a massage? If there is no negative effect, why should it be a crime?
3) isn’t this a valid human need just like any other? Something that makes people feel better is good, isn’t it?
4) Why shouldn’t someone doing this type of work receive the same amount of respect (or more) as someone doing any other type of work that contributes to the public good.
5) So a bunch of people patronized an escort service? So what? This sort of thing has been going on for thousands of years. What is shocking or even unusual about that? In most countries this would not even be considered news.
Just a note about WSG. “WSG” originated in mid-90’s on USENET (mostly alt.sex.prostitution) and eventually turned into a web site. The guy that runs it does so as non-sleazily as possible (for an open forum) but has been forced to change sites a few times due to lawsuits and harrassment.
The site that currently uses “WorldSexGuide.info” is a Johny-come-lately (and very sleazy) imposter. If you want to do further [historical] digging then look at the sites being run by the original owners - those sites now live at internationalsexguide.info and usasexguide.info. You’ll find very few disgusting ads there relative to the site you mentioned and probably much better historical info.
The WSG archives date back so far that lots of sites put them up somewhere. I have a feeling however that you’re most likely to find good dirt on sites like theeroticreview.net. WSG is fairly old-school - casual users and customers of higher-end call-girls are more likely to use TER.
Ms. Palfrey’s service sounds like it was a really good one ($275 for 90 minutes is a bargain in DC and it sounds like the girls were very nice). I wish I had had the opportunity to try it out
The current We
Government can use regulation and the law to protect consumers or it can be used to restrict competion and reward or punish groups of people and whole industries…
Selective enforcement usually has a root in the latter…
What stinks at the bottom of this rat hole? Somethin’…
What is the basis for the charge, I haven’t read beyond the salacious details…? That she was running whores? Or that she was not paying taxes? If the latter…well, that is not a moral issue, you pay your taxes… If the allegation is based on the legal or illegal nature of her business then her tactic might have validity, if we are talking about tax fraud, goodnight, Madame…
Interesting website… has it occurred to you that people who are fixated on specific crimes might have reason to be…beyond what they state?
Just asking, ’cause for a certain type of criminal this is flypaper…
LOL…
Dallas
The actual legal problem for Ms. Palfrey has to do with how she handled her profits. The allegations are that she had a racket going, and was using the way the girls paid her to obscure the path of income, thereby running under the IRS’s radar. This has been obscured by the more tacky aspect of the case, for sure. If ‘pimping’ were the only problem here, Ms. Palfrey might not be facing quite as much trouble — I think, I don’t know for sure.
As to the last part of your comment — it was a little confusing. If you look at the categories or browse through the archives, this site covers the gamut of criminal behavior — from serial murder to vigilantism to fraudsters and cons. If you mean what I think you mean by “flypaper” — yeah, I know. BELIEVE me, I know. Got the death threats to prove it.
this is a great grandma from indiana.. and i wanted to tell this girl… Deborah.. I am rooting for her.. not her johns….. you go girl… you go.. expose them all who want your service… so the media can cover what our nation loves best.. sex stories. … cannot wait… until it gets to the white house.
I’m probably one of the very few feminists who thinks that yes, prostitution should be legalized, and that women/men should NOT be stigmatized because they’re selling something they do (I believe strongly in Spider Robinson’s vision of what it could be — read his wonderfully entertaining Lady Callahan’s Place novels to see what I mean). Get it legal so you can enforce wage requirements & social security & workplace safety requirements & age restrictions & health restrictions. We allow folks to kill for money (ie, army, police)…why not allow them to have sex for money?
With THAT said, I’ve been watching this story with interest & amusement. I hope she releases ALL the names of the hypocrites who used her service, yet pass the laws to keep her illegal.
LOL @ “Fred’s “WSG†was most likely WorldSexGuide.info, a sister (or drunken, horny frat brother) site to the one where this post was made.”
Thank you for treating this humourously. I would agree with Chris, except that an awful lot of the women (and men) who choose this profession are in no fit state to make that choice because of addictions or personal history. Should we ever take the legalising route and arrange for health benefits and insurance - and the possibility to legally declare earnings from prostitution to the IRS, it is a near certainty that there would still be people at the bottom of the heap who were unable to take advantage of these possibilities. Can you see drug addicts saving money for their taxes? (Taxing at the source is hardly a solution while the purchasing of such services is still morally condemned in many quarters.) There would still be a large unorganised - and therefore unprotected (perhaps in more ways than one) - sex worker problem.
Tobias made his money as Eli Lilly CEO when their top seller Prozac was going strong.My issue is he was an unqualified hack for the job.
Daniel Haszard Eli Lilly whistle-blower
For those who don’t think its a big deal, youre probably right…. if it wasnt high ranking government officials.
When commiting a crime to engage in a sex act, you are opening yourself up to blackmail and espionage. Not ideal behavio for the person directly under Condoleeza Rice.
Randall also took an oath against human trafficking, but then openly speaks of using ‘central american girls’. Someone of his position should know Central American women are commonly trafficked to the US to work as strippers, escorts etc. Sometimes willingly, sometimes not…
What a great blog. I think it should be decriminalized myself. Guys will always seek this out & there will always be women who are willing.
I’m sure Mr. Tobias is just a small piece of the puzzle. DC is a very well know busy escort area. Because of his position though, mabey he should have went with someone who didn’t screen her clients, thus remaining anonymous. His hypocritical statements are what irritates me & we all know it wasn’t no damn massage.
Peter Piper,
aside: (your name makes me crave an ice-cold Dill~
Oh yeah…your earlier post…..It was basically a reiteration of current change in this area. That is what i picked up from your post, anyhow.
BTW….your cogent ‘take’ on this issue was AWESOME and your insight beyond words.
~Becky
sure, Larry, sure. lol (just kidding).
Hey - if she goes to jail for racketeering or tax evasion she’ll be following in the footsteps of some pretty famous ladies!
I see a book deal in the future, as well as some severe embarassment (and maybe other book deals).
Thanks, Steve - this one was humorous. Needed the laugh!
When it comes right down to it, why do you any of you care about what did or did not occur between two consenting adults? Why do any of you have a right to judge what other people do?
Here are a few points for small pea brains to attempt to contemplate:
1. STOP telling me that I’m being objectified, or used, or abused, or taken advantage of. I’m an escort. I make $300 an hour. Can any of you say the same thing? I doubt it. I drive a brand new car - paid for. I live in a VERY nice condo. I have two bachelor’s degrees, and decided to let both of them gather dust while I enjoy a more pleasant occupational pursuit. When I am too old to escort, I’ll blow the dust off of them and put them to use. Or not. By the time I’m ready to “retire” I will be very well off. How exactly have I been exploited??
2. What on EARTH makes any of you think you will ever put a stop to prostutition? If you think the so-called “war on drugs” is a dead end gig, then consider the fact that prostitution is labelled the ‘world’s oldest profession’ for a reason. Its been around since the dawn of time, and will be around long after all of us here today have long gone to dust. Law enforcement agencies waste valuable time and money pursuing a victimless crime while murderers and thieves run rampant. The money spent investigating and prosecuting prostitutes and their clients could be better spent housing and feeding the homeless, immunizing children, educating children, caring for our elders, and a hundred other causes that are alot more important than trying to put a stop to something men and women are going to do regardless.
3. If you are REALLY concerned about STD transmission via prostitution, or worried about underage girls being forced into prostitution, the quickest and easiest way is to address the real problems involved with prostitution, while at the same time leaving the women alone who do practice common sense. First, decriminalize prostitution. I know, I know - my God if you did that, you couldn’t demonize us anymore. Second, REGULATE prostitution. That would allow city and state to both collect taxes on prostitution, AND separate women who engage in safe practices from those who do not. How you might ask? Easy. Require sex workers to apply for a license to be a sex worker, and require that they renew their license every 90 days. Require a negative STD screen, AND a negative drug screen, as well as valid proof that she is at least 18 years of age in order to issue and/or renew her licence. Finally, charge a fee for issueing and renewing a sex worker license. Charge $100 for each renewal. Law enforcement agencies can then concentrate on pursuing sex workers who do NOT have a license - ie are drug users, STD carriers or girls who are underage, and meanwhile, women who are otherwise law abiding citizens are free to pursue their avocation if they choose. Meanwhile, the legal sex trade actually becomes a revenue source rather than a financial drain on already tight law enforcement budgets. Everyone wins.
Wake up people. Times have changed. Prostitution has evolved in recent years. Gone are the days of dirty seedy brothels, with women who’s cleanliness is questionable at best. Women don’t have to stand on street corners anymore and create a public eyesore either. Those conditions do still exist of course, but more and more women have learned to use the internet to both promote themselves, and to educate themselves about how to provide a quality service that is both safe, and discrete. It is past time for society to recognize that prostitution is a fact of life, but that with a modicum of common sense, it doesn’t have to be the taboo subject it once was.
Other people who have commented have wondered just how deep the rabbit hole goes on this. It goes deep. If one good thing comes out of this entire mess, it is my hope that once the public is flooded by the sheer number of men implicated, they will come to realize exactly how pointless the battle against prostituion really is. Its a fool’s hope, but perhaps the only silver lining to be found in the wake of countless careers brought to an end. The gentlemen caught up in this mess have my very deepest sympathy, but as for Madame Palfrey, she has my deepest loathing. It is unconscionable that she would betray the trust given to her in such a manner.
And for the record, I do not exchange sex for money because that is illegal. I exchange money only for my time and companionship.
I just can’t stop loling at “YMMV”!
Ain’t that ALWAYS the truth!
I am not really sure where I fall on prostitution. The whole “two consenting adults” argument is pretty compelling to me even if I personally think having sex in exchange for money is degrading. That’s my personal opinion, which applies to me, and I understand not every woman would feel that way.
Though I would argue that it’s not exactly a “victimless crime.” Tell Mrs. Tobias that she’s not a victim of anything. I am sure the wives of these “consenting adults” feel quite victimized.
Mrs. Tobias’ husband cheated on her. That doesn’t make her a victim of the prostitutes he slept with. They had no obligation to her and it isn’t appropriate for them to ask their clients personal questions. What is the difference between cheating on your spouse and cheating on your spouse with a ‘ho?
At least Tobias didn’t hook up with some guy on craigslist and arrange for a BJ in the Atlanta airport public bathroom, like the now-former MARTA board member (allegedly) did. Now THAT’S a class act. (Although I was genuinely boggled that the other guy would travel all the way from Indiana, or some other midwest state, for such a rendevous.)
S,
So your position is that you accept payment for your companionship only. If you choose to have sex with your customer that is your business. Do your customers understand that? Legally, I believe, you are an unlawful prostitute unless the sex happens after the paid hours. I wonder how your explanation would work if you got arrested.
I think prostitution by an escort should be legal. I also think that it is quite different than the “girl on the street,” which I believe should be ILlegal. And I am not offended by the descriptions of the women, left by men who need to pay for it. LOL
Regarding the wives and their cheating husbands, some additional thoughts:
1. Adultery isn’t illegal. If it were, roughly 30% of all spouses (if not more) would be on their way to the big house.
2. Its not my job to be someone’s mommy, their guilty conscience, or the morality police. Why a gentleman comes to see me is his business, not mine. If he is married, that is his choice, not mine. I don’t show up on someone’s door and throw myself at him. When I see someone, it is because HE contacted me, not the other way around. So who is being punished or held accountable here? Me, or the cheating husband? Not all of my clients are married. In fact, many are not married. Should prostitution be illegal solely because a married man MIGHT engage the services of a prostitute? That premise lacks both logic and common sense.
3. I have saved more marriages than I may have indirectly harmed. This may be a difficult concept to believe, and some may dismiss this, but I have found that it is true for many men that I see. I cannot count the number of men who love their wives very much. They see their wives as their best friend, their partner, their life mate. Yet despite their love of their wife, their marriage lacks one critical element - sexual intimacy. There may be any number of reasons for this, but the fact remains, that many men who are married seek the services of a prostitute not because they just want some variety, but because they are married to a woman they love, but who will not or cannot meet their need for sexual intimacy. It is a far better decision, in my opinion, for these men to engage the no strings, no expectations services of a prostitute as opposed to striking up an illicit romance in which feelings and commitments usually become an issue.
So, is a wife who has discovered her husband’s infidelity with a prostitute a victim? Yes. There is no doubt that Mrs. Tobias is feeling very hurt right now after learning about her husband’s behavior. I go to great lengths to ensure that does not happen with the men that I see, but nothing is foolproof. To date, not once have I been contacted by a wife, nor to my knowledge has anything I have ever done caused a gentleman I have seen to be caught by his wife. This isn’t an excuse by any means. It is an unfortunate reality. I honestly don’t know how I would feel if I ever were contacted by someone’s wife. Despite that though, this is not a sufficient argument to justify criminalizing prostitution. At least, not in my book. Others I am certain, probably see it differently.
I didn’t say that women whose husbands are using the services of prostitutes were being victimized by the prostitutes. My understanding is that in a transaction between a prostitute and a “client,” both parties are committing a crime. The husband is clearly in the wrong - I would agree it’s not the prostitute’s responsibility to ensure that her clients are not married. My argument was that to call prostitution a victimless crime was not completely accurate - there most definitely can be people getting hurt as a result.
S., thank you for a thoughtful and level-headed response. I have had many similar discussions with various people. Intellectually, I understand that people can have sex without some of the other trappings of a relationship that might accompany it. Emotionally, the idea of sex as a business transaction doesn’t appeal to me. I am not here to judge those who can do it though. My main sympathy for the wives is that their husbands are keeping a pretty big, dark secret from them - to me, that would be the biggest betrayal.
On a cruise this fall one of the couples at our dinner table had been married 30 years, and you could tell they were still infatuated with each other. Another couple asked them to give words of wisdom for the younger couples at the table, and without hesitation the man said that he is still extremely attracted to his wife, and the woman said that she has never once turned her husband down. Her thought was that she should do whatever she could to provide something so important to the man she loved. In return, he tried to be sensitive to when she wasn’t feeling well, etc. A counselor once told me that the physical part is 50% of a good relationship - I have absolutely come to believe that.
oh shoot, Melly. I need to get busy!
j/k.
LOL Jill…that was my thought too!
Gotta jump in on this one! If I am thinking with the “values and morals” side of my brain I say keep prostitution illegal. BUT on the other hand, in terms of a country, I see the enforcement of that law as a waste of manpower and tax dollars. If only because it will never stop. I think the problem America is and has been facing is the question of “what are our morals as a country NOW?” When the country was founded we had a group of people come in who had a similar ideal and were facing off against a government they had left thinking they could do it better. So they went about making laws and guidelines thinking in those narrow terms, not forseeing the future and how generations later people would not be connected to those same values and beliefs. So now we have a kind of rebellion, like our forefathers had for their native land, only there is no other country to go create and make our own. Hence the constant butting of heads between the “old schoolers” and the “rebels”. I think both viewpoints have merit. I don’t think there should be some kind of free for all where people just go around doing whatever feels good at the moment, but I don’t think we can afford (literally) to keep being the morality police for everyone either. As far as prostitution is concerned I think it would probably be more beneficial for all involved for it to be legalized. Like S said earlier, it is between two consenting adults. I do think that the regulations on it need to be strict though in terms of how it is advertised and marketed. I would never want to have to walk down the street covering my kids eyes because there were half naked women dancing in a window inviting men in for sex, for instance.
As for Ms. Palfrey, I’m slightly confused on how the government can think that they can ask for taxes from money gained through an illegal business. Do they chase drug dealers for their taxes?? This is not about taxes in my opinion. This is partly about the government being pissed they didn’t get their cut, (though from the sounds of the lists of names they DID in fact get a cut…wink wink), it’s about busting a prostitution ring while exposing and embarrassing government officials. I don’t know that I care whether it is left or right leaning in numbers. I have a feeling it’s going to come out pretty even, as everyone gets horny, but I think all it will accomplish is hurting more people. We all know that both sides are made-up of a bunch of candid liars who don’t even believe the crap that comes out of their own mouths. Do we really need more proof? Better yet, do we really need any more distractions away from the more important things going on in this country right now? Whole thing seems pointless to me and more like a witch hunt than anything else.
Em, ITA with everything you say.
From a personal point of view, I certainly hope that my beautiful and intelligent daughter doesn’t decide to put aside the college education that her dad and I will be giving her, simply to become an “escort” to an icky, slobbering man.
I mean, money is nice - but a fantastic apartment, luxurious car and a charge card at Niemans is truly not worth selling your body for, in my opinion. How many college-educated, NICE guys would she attract when she is ready to settle down, after explaining how she’d spent her time since college? And, I can just see her resume - the gaps have to be explained. Doubt she’d be much in demand at a legitimate job if she didn’t have the right experience out of college.
I have to laugh when it is discussed how intelligent these prostitutes are. I’m sure in the eyes of the men they “escort”, they are hookers.
jmo.
LOL Jill! Yeah I did get a kick out of the “intelligent” marketing ploy. Cause, you know, that’s what guys are going there for! I feel just as you do about my daughter. I still view prostitution as something you do when you are beyond desperate, but I’m also a girl and do not frequent those types of places to be able to judge the new and improved product everyone is referring to. I personally do feel that something is emotionally wrong with men or women who particpate in it. Even the ones that say it is their choice and they are not demeaned or bothered by it. If they are not bothered by it then, to me, it signals an even larger emotional problem. Men get off the hook too easily in this arena because everyone is just expected to accept that they have an uncontrollable sexual urge that women do not typically have, therefore it’s understandable. I think that’s a cop out and another version of moral relativity. There’s no such thing as easy money either, there’s a price to everything. But, like I said earlier, it’s more of a hassle and danger to enforce the law and I’d rather have these prostitutes have rights and medical benefits (and everything else that goes with a legal job) because it would at least give them some power to get help if they need/want it. Right now if they are trapped into it as the only means to survive by, then they have no way to reach out for help. Vicious cycle.
Emerson and jill, you have both expressed my thoughts much more clearly than I could articulate them!
To address the tax issue…If I am remembering correctly from my administrative law class in grad school, the IRS actually has a policy on this. They just want the income reported and the taxes on it paid, the IRS itself doesn’t care where the money is coming from if the government is getting its cut. If taxes are being paid in compliance with U.S. tax law, they don’t report the income to law enforcement. Theoretically, those reporting illegal income should not get in trouble just from reporting the income on tax forms. It’s the tax evasion and NOT following U.S. tax law that gets people in trouble. That’s when the IRS starts following the money, based on the premise that if someone is trying to hide large amounts of money from the IRS, it must be illegally gained.
Newsweek has a great article about this - you can read it on the front page of msnbc.com (forgive if this has been posted already).
Emerson,
I have to say, that your views are both very cool, and very enlightened.
I certainly don’t expect others to approve of my decisions, or to accept prostitution as being something good and acceptable. Your values are your values, and I completely respect others for their opinion.
All I ever ask of anyone is to not interfere in the choices I make for myself, because I would never dream of interfering into someone else’s life and telling them what they should or should not do. So the fact that you can accept prostituion as being something others do, while at the same time feeling it to be wrong for you is definitely something to be respected.
I could paint a rosey picture of my occupation, because there is much about it that is good, and fun, and very fulfilling for me. Emotionally, and mentally fulfilling, surprising as that may seem. Add to that the fact that it does pay very well - if a woman is smart about it at least. But yes, it certainly does have its downside, risks, and problems too. For now, I’m willing to accept those risks, and deal with the problems because the enjoyment of what I do far outweighs the bad. At some point, either I will simply be too old to continue (although I know women well into their 40’s who still enjoy their job, and are still in very high demand), or the problems will begin to outweight the benefits. When that time comes, I’ll change to something else.
But I just had to say I really respect your views. I respect you for saying you don’t of approve what I do, while at the same time recognizing my right as an adult to make the decision for myself. I only wish more people were as enlightened.
PS I don’t have children, but I have two nieces who are like my daughters. I wouldn’t want them doing this either. LOL Its a double standard, and I freely admit it. And no, they have absolutely no idea what I do for a living, if you wondered.
Dames and Gents,
In times unprecedented and tinged with despair, it is appropriate to reflect on the founding of our great nation. It was not with George Washington, but with Brutus, and not the one who killed Caeser. There was another who rebelled against the tyrant monarchy of Rome, The Tarquins. He wrote the Roman Constitution that would stand for 500 years. His sons sided with the monarchy. The monarchy lost. So to punish his sons and found a perfect union, he immolated his own sons.
Machiavelli speaks fluently and voluminoulsy and voiciferously on this subject, in ‘The Discourses’, and yet is proved wrong on several counts by the miracle of America.
He says that a nation founded in servitude, as America was a colony, will never win its freedom. He also says that a nation founded on fertile soil that is easily defended, will in time loose all of its freedoms because it will become, eventually, inevitably, sloth and sated, and will forget to protect them.
As regards ‘The DC Madam’, I am personally involved. You can view my involvement at http://www.maytheygetwhattheydeserve.com/KAT.html
Sometimes a mouse will lead you to a kat, and a kat can lead you to a rat and a rat, ironically, can lead you to the truth.
And the truth, as they say, and as it is written, will set you Free.
May all those who sincerely and patiently wait for freedom be free and may all those who desire to steal those freedoms find instead the dire consequences that accompany contempt for a great man like Brutus.
As regards Machiavelli,
eram sapiens tamen nefas
And again,
vox vocis publicus est vox vocis deus
May The Republic stand forever and bring the Glory of The World, with Dignity, into Its Treasury.
Purple
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[…] May 1, 2007 D.C. Madam Madness! BuzzFlash Thinks She’s Got One or Two Big Fishes That She’s Keeping to Herself. You Know, Like Guys in the White House or DOJ Who Could Cut a Deal With Her Attorney and Let Her Off on Probation. She’s Leaking the “Little Fish” to Send a Message to a Couple of Very High Ranking People. By the Way, How Come There Was No Prosecution of Jeff Gannon for Running a Male Escort Service Right Into the White House? Oh, Those Pesky Questions. http://crimeblog.us/?p=395 […]
[…] the latter possibility is true, then another story of prostitution and “client lists” from earlier in 2007 might pale in […]
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